(Still like calling you DD better.)

All the points you made above were valid. Now comes the hard part. You need to figure out a way to work all the above into your script so a reader gets most of it the first time, WITHOUT needing to spell it all out like this.

Some of it can only really be appreciated on the screen, so work on the larger plot points you’re hoping to make, Bart being taken for granted, the looming opportunity of the Bear Universe Pageant, etc.

I agree we’d be surprised by the types of people who like it, but understand that you’re going to have to find the absolutely perfect person to read it and make it (if you don’t do bits of it yourself).

As far as calling it a musical, I think you’re going to have to ALL IN or take out the musical bits. It’s either a musical or it isn’t. Going middle of the road is just going to confuse someone, and if you list it as a musical beforehand (whether you change everything or not) know that might result in a “pass” before even being read.

Thems the breaks for us new guys. Is it fair? No. But is life?

Damn, I have questions for Roeg about his career. Mostly about Petulia and Performance. Petulia (along with Five Easy Pieces, Private Benjamin and the book version of Breakfast at Tiffinys) was the influence for my ending.

Thanks to both walker and Randall for the encouragement…and obviously you too, Hank. (BTW “Kilpatrick” was based on the 90′s pornstar Hank Hightower)

I’m still fascinated that the stuff I think people will take issue with never gets called out (killing the dog, Chuck’s handicap, the prominent cat subplot) but other things are problematic. (the nude women’s locker room scene…didn’t see that coming…at all. lol) So I’m always glad to see what isn’t reading well. Sooooo…

My intent was to filter my story through the film conventions and styles of sexploitation/eurotrash/60′s adult grindhouse and classic porn. (hence the use of “chicka wow-wow” “Deep Inside” “Sexpot” and the spelling of “Nites” in the title.) Tarantino has stated that “Kill Bill” and “From Dusk Til Dawn” are movie movies… the type of films that the characters in “Pulp Fiction” or “Reservoir Dogs” would watch. That’s the meta angle I’m aiming for. So the split screen stuff isn’t meant to be showy but essential to the tone of the flick plus the Overture and Entr’acte are classic roadshow traditions. I’m setting the stage that this isn’t going to be an everyday throwaway comedy. This film is an event. ya may not like it…but you sure ain’t gonna forget it. (Everytime you expressed a WTF? in the review, I knew I had a touchdown.) Plus the Overture sets up that the film is a partial musical. Some of the earlier scenes are meant to be choreographed so when the the bears break out into song it isn’t as jarring as it reads, there is some foreshadowing that the film is going in that direction. On other sites I’ve described the film as having scenes that are send-ups of “Glee” and “Dancing With The Stars”. So you were on track with your “Glee” reference.

I agree that that most of the workplace subplot can be axed but it was meant to reinforce themes and social mindsets. (visually I want to establish the grouping of people and how we pass through these groups without noticing them. (it still surprises me who many people don’t know what “bears” are) So when Joe accidentally intersects with the bears it shifts his perspective. For the first part of the script. Joe is a single/groupless entity that is made to feel isolated for not conforming. (the tattoos and haircut are a social distancing device) He discovers a group… finds who he is…and moves on realizing he’s cool with not conforming to others concepts of how he should be. The bears force him to evaluate his life choices instead of hiding behind his punk-ish facade.

It’s interesting that most people are happy the cat ditches Joe and Jessica for what it feels is a better life….but think the script has an unhappy ending because Joe and Jessica don’t end up together. Only humans repeat negative behavior in hopes that something positive will happen. It’s a happy ending because Joe is moving on to find his own windowsill to curl up on. Hence the “Unwritten” reference….I am unwritten/can’t read my mind/I’m undefined/I’m just beginning/pen in my hand/ending unplanned

Music numbers: I only wrote out the lyrics for numbers in which I changed the words or structure. Otherwise if I was sticking to the original I just mentioned the title (Toby Keith “I Love This Bar”….I love this bear.) I agree it’s awkward. Plays better on screen but is a lousy read. I don’t know how to fix that.

The Sex party is there to pad out the first half with heterosexual debauchery (along with the sex club) to quell complaints that the gays are a bunch of hedonists while straights are monogamously aimed creatures. Also I wanted to give as much skin time to the ladies when I could (along with the locker room scene…which BTW is also there to deepen Jessica’s body image issues (like Joe) being that she was a former sex object.) It’s all to keep the homophobes distracted before things get really gay.

Jail: also establishes Burl. Who presence cements Joe not falling back into the Jessica rut, not going back to the bear trap (sounds like another bear bar. lol) and choosing to move on with his life.

Bart’s death is a mainstream film structure dig of the tired tradition of killing off the best friend “Goose” character. His character is meant to be out of the picture, on the sidelines, when Joe’s finds new friends. The script is playing around with the many shades of grey when it comes to male bonding. Bart should come off as a jilted ex…..when Joe jumps in the truck with Thunder, Bart is taken for granted and put on the friendship back burner)

Joe’s Bearfly evening…..um, well…as someone who worked at an adult store for almost 6 years I can tell you there are a lot of straight identifying, ring wearing, multiple women banging, family men, frat boy, sports guy, beer swilling dudes that have one or two bearfly nights under their belts. (I won’t even get into the hetero-flexible straight guys that put out for their gay friends in a variation of the “friends with benefits scenario) Bearfly sparks Joe’s run back to Jessica to score some hetero guilt sex and to cement that Joe isn’t a repressed homosexual. Also I want to see how many dufuses go home and attempt sex with a popsicle.

The kiss scene.. lol. so here’s the deal. I really toned down the gay angle and upped the gratuitous hetero sex scenes, up to that point, to calm the more nervous members of the audience. The kiss scene is meant to be the longest kiss scene on film….which means it needs to run about 3 1/2 minutes. It’s the moment that the film is saying. “O.K. folks if you really have a problem with the subject matter now is the time to leave cuz things are gonna get really uncomfortable for you from this point forward. Deal with it”….just like with what Thunder is doing to the homophobe on screen. I’ve spent years trying to figure out how to fill up 3+ minutes of screen time with that kiss. It’s a either you’re on board or you’re not moment.

Here’s something to wrap your brain around. I googled my trailer (long version) to see who was watching it. Some of the sites it was embedded on were a Russian, German and Italian comedy website. Being sold as a ring tone on a Spanish site. Was given 5 stars on a Pakistani entertainment website. (listed under Warner Brother films along with Dark Knight and Inception) Was on a body building website AND a “TeenUSA” website under comedy. I don’t think this thing is as alienating as everyone thinks it is. Its really just an R-rated, male arrested development, fish-out-of-water, gross out comedy.

Final 5 points…

Bart at Joe’s house. He had an opportunity to fuck around in an empty house and was too lazy to go home afterwards (plus there’s some of that repressed bro love, we find out about later, with the scrapbook)

Joe’s daytime job. I haven’t crossed over to being a full time filmmaker…why should Joe be that lucky?

Private piercing care. Yes, it does hurt….and bleeds when mishandled. Also attaching a dog leash to it less than a week after getting it and going to a Halloween party wearing crotchless jeans and rollerblades and asking drunk people to pull you around the streets is a very…very…bad idea. Joe got off easy getting smacked into a canvas.

I’ve always been annoyed by how everyone in Tarantino films have the same obscure pop cultural reference points. They all sound like Quentin himself. I tried to make sure my pop cultural references were character specific. (The artist giving a shout out to “Fear of Flying” sums up a lot about the type of person she is. I know it’s an outdated point. But any current pop point will be just as lost to future generations. I’m lost on the “Dawson Creek” jokes on “Watch Out For The B—- In Apt. 23″ but they’re still funny in their delivery. So I sort of defend name dropping if it defines a character (unlike say the Genie doing the Arsenio “Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!” in “Aladdin”) I guess my attitude is that if the viewer doesn’t get it and they really are bothered they can look it up on wiki later. Otherwise, unless you need to get it to follow the story, it’s not a problem. It’s just a joke that isn’t funny to them.

And….

Okay, this is my big concern. The Bear Universe Pageant is the whole driving force behind the story. It’s the thing Joe thinks he needs to win to find happiness. When he’s rejected. It’s his rock bottom. It’s when he gains clarity, finds self worth and takes on the world (so to speak) It’s his turning point. I mean that’s something that will be made clear when filmed and edited but is it lost in the reading?

Anyway, thanks again. It was good feedback. I see some things that need to be made clearer…and it’s not the things I thought.

Oh, one more thing….Do I need to state in the title (or the title page) that it’s a musical? I was already told by one producer that I needed to pitch it to a Baz Luhrmann type producer. (Like I have those connections) It’s a film with dance numbers and singing like in the early sound motion pictures…I think calling it a full blown musical is misleading.

What Walker said is true too DD, you should direct it yourself, and if time/money is a constraint I’d think it’d be awesome just to see that first back and forth between Joe and Jessica. There’s power in dem words, sir.

@ Dosch: You are a director, make this yourself. I looked at your AS profile, and references to Fassbinder, Antonioni, Altman, Hitchcock, and particularly Nicolas Roeg bode well for your art, if not your commercial success.

When I was young I wrote a book about Vertigo. It remains unpublished. In the course of my research I interviewed Roeg in London.

“I feel wierd turning to the Rev. Hahn for inspiration, but hey, it’s Sunday”…..Sir, you honor me….

As I said in the review, this was not my kind of movie, but great day, the dialogue grabbed me by the collar and kept me going forward, and you are right about its “originality”, one of a kind….I emailed Mr. Dosch back and forth a bit on it and he informed me his intention was to produce it himself, or at least direct it..and that’s why it was written more as what the film will look like from a finished stand point….I think Mr. Dosch is a serious talent and would love to see what else he comes up with….Would not be one of my favorite movies, but definitely one of my favorite scripts…if that makes sense..

walker – Thank You for getting the Cruising opening. Now that it’s been removed from the DVD/Bluray and nearly impossible to find on the internet I thought it was possibly a completely lost pop cultural reference. It was meant to both serve the purpose that the original had (which I think is pretty damn funny) and be a “that was then, this is now” segue…or to take the Cruising tone “we are about to see a movie with creepy homos in it” and flip it to “lighten up, have fun and enjoy…you’re sexuality will still be intact when you leave this film”

LOL.

And I don’t think DD should tone it down either, just realize that the market for people who are going like it is small.

And really it is very much the work of a writer-director. Although the story could benefit from some tightening, attempting to make this script palatable to a wider audience is not a good idea, if it is even possible.

The opening scene appropriating from Cruising is a funny gag in context. The insertion of the wussy title card in that cringe-inducing movie marked a low point in Hollywood’s abysmal treatment of gay subject matter. Dosch also adds some psychotic subtext, because not only was that production a monstrosity, but composer Jack Nitzche, director William Friedkin, and star Al Pacino were all at the height of their own personal lunacies. Nevertheless, this production won’t have a prayer of licensing that stuff, so it’s a moot point.

I knew nothing of this hallucinatory demimonde before I read the script, and I thought the writer did a good job of introducing it. It sort of degenerates into a series of set pieces, but that is common among comedies. I agree that the Jessica storyline is the heart of the script, and more attention should be given to it in each act.

The best review of this over on AS is by Randall Hahn, who wrote, “Please, for the sake of your art, do not tone it down…but for the sake of your craft….tighten it up…I believe you have a great underground cult film here for the audience it is intended….” I feel weird turning to the Rev. Hahn for inspiration, but hey, it’s Sunday.

Another thoughtful, respectful, and frankly suspicious review from Write to Reel.